Print

[none]

I don't know anything about economics but I keep hearing that the WBCCI has been losing money each year.  I am wondering if there is regulation in that regard.  I have some questions and thoughts which I would appreciate if anyone could help me sort out a few quandries of mine.

Is the WBCCI a non-profit organization?  Is it tax exempt?  Is it operating ethically?  As prudent members do we have recourse?  What are the policies for financial accountability?  Are operations planned and controlled to work within approved budget amounts?  Are there asset protection policies within the WBCCI?  Is it common for board members to be compensated?  Is there a conflict of interest with the Board of Trustees participating in discussion and voting on matters where he or she has potential conflict of interest, due to having material economic involvement regarding the matters being discussed?  This would be such as in reembursements and stipends and raising dues or planning appreciation awards and benefits for the IBT?  Should the members set up an advisory board?  Does WBCCI meet regulation standards?

[Bob280]

1. Yes, WBCCI is a non-profit Organization -- But that does NOT mean that it is ok to keep running in the red.

2. Is it tax-exempt -- yes and no Some income that WBCCI receives is or could be taxable. ex., Advertising income may be taxable.

If a Balance sheet and an Income and expense reports were presented according to the "generaly accepted Accounting Practices" One could understand the financial situation of the Club much better, but of course that would raise many questions. Example, At Perry, It is my understanding that the Club paid over $500 per golf cart for rentals, while several of us paid around $300 for the same time frame.

3.As prudent members, do we have recourse? Yes, Under RONR, the Leadership cdould be recalled. or We could elect a whole (or partial) new slate of officers. Or the members could change the constitution to preclude some abuses or problem areas. or as a Last resort, a possible lawsuit.

4.What are the policies for financial responsibility? Apparently none. At least none published that I know of.

5. Are operations planned and ...? Maybe, but I don't see any evidance of that

6. Are ther asset protection policies...? Maybe, but I don't see any evidance of that.

7.Is it common for board members to be conpensated? Yes, the Chairman of many large Corporations receive a dollar a year. Some receive nothing.

8. iIs there a conflict of...? Tough question, the Congress of the United States does just that.

9.Should the members set up...? No, the Delegates or the IBT should do that.

10. Does WBCCI meet regulation standards? Don't know, what regulations? What standards?

Bob T

[none]

Thanks Bob.  What regulations or standards did I mean?  Regulations governing the operation of non-profit organizations.  If it is any interest to anyone I was reading information from  here http://www.idealist.org/if/idealist/en/FAQ/Nonprofit/Home/default

[none]

What was the particular wording changed to at the Mid-Winter IBT to bring the club into accordance with the IRS requirements in regards to WBCCI's conflict of interest policy?  How did it read formerly and how does it now read?  Might I conjecture then that the policy has been and is in good stead? 

I still think voting for your own payments and reembursements without veto power constitutes a conflict of interest on the members' behalf.  Had the units voted to raise the membership fee for only MALs or on any of the IBT expenditures?? 

Also why are we tax exempt?  Are we?

[65GT]

You're going deep on me kiddo!   

There wasn't a whole lot of conversation on this one -- it seemed to flow more as a new requirement for all not-for-profits.  That if you didn't have this in your charter, you were going to raise an eyebrow.  I had joked online, as it came up, 'does that mean that officers can no longer hawk SkyMed on the side?  Maybe they can no longer hawk private overseas caravans to the membership?'  I'm sure there are a dozen+ other categories, but conflict is conflict.

The only real conflict of interest these folks seemed to have, was allowing mere members to post on a forum that they themselves won't use.  The mere brilliance that came forward over that one, was a bright, blinding white light.

I think there was a specific clause, something about any and all referenences to 'the Emperor's Clothes'...   

So, are we losing money?  Yes Maam -- old news -- no longer raises an eyebrow -- barely gets a mention from this day forward.  Fuzzy math bailed us out of that one.  I'm sure we belong to some not-for-profit lobby group, and are right in line looking for a bailout, right behind the porn industry.  We show our worth by claiming a 20 year old classic motorhome is "AIRSTREAM ONE" (although I'm not sure why that wouldn't be "WBCCI ONE"), no private jets here -- just an expense account that is NOT based on overall performance, yet is subject to occasional increases when those emperors decide they need one... 

Yes -- we are tax exempt -- not-for-profit.  I guess we're pushing the RV way of life, raising money for other not-for-profits, and participating in a bigger RV club lobbying group (not sure what that is).  But every not for profit has management and expenses.  I just wonder where we rank, while we're running two years in the RED...

As soon as I get some time, I've got to finish researching how we may have been an additional $50K in the red in '08, but made an accounting change to push that loss into '09.  I merely thought I heard it -- have to go back to the tapes to see if we're playing games, well, more games...   

[none]

bump

[Bob280]

Bump - Bump Bump, Bump Bump, Bump d' Bump

Don't suppose the Club is ib rough water (hot) when it could have listened to Leo and others and have smooth sailing???

[65GT]

Right now I'm up to my eyeballs in expulsion review, no time to dig into this issue (bump da da bump).  Someone else is going to have to chase that tail.

Here's something interesting to consider this fine snow laden morning...

C O D E   O F   E T H I C S

"...To ever be mindful of what we say or print with respect to its effect on others so as to avoid disharmony and ill feelings among club members..."
_________________________________________________

Verbal and print are mere words, it's the actions and lack thereof from this clique of mis-managers that are the source of ALL off WBCCI problems:

2006  Changing the Club's Name:  Airsteam Owners Association International -- A leadership driven campaign directly caused "disharmony and ill feelings among club members"

2007 Breaking our Airsrteam Only Membership Requirement:  Four Winds Motorhomes -- A leadership driven campaign directly caused "disharmony and ill feelings among club members"

2008 Unit's Voting Rights:  The direct result of misguided leadership causing disharmony and ill feelings among club members through their mis-guided campgains the two prior years.  Units and regions draft legislation that would guarantee a unit's ability to be cast their votes annually.  This effort was met by an IP, having 45 days notice of such efforts, to lie in wait, calling both motions 'out of order' to the shock and dismay of all that would have expected true leadership to work with its members for progress.  Additionally this administration posted a fiscal operating loss, a fiscal international rally loss, and a membership loss.  All four of these actions directly caused "disharmony and ill feelings among club members"

2009 Discrimination Against Members:  This administration blocked mere members from access to the membership for international elections.  The IP created a new established custom that did not allow those that could not be present at the Mid-Winter IBT meeting to be considered for international office.  Nor would this IP allow those individuals access to the membership in free, open, and fair elections.  Further, this administration posted a $43K fiscal operating loss, a $103K international fiscal rally loss, and a membership loss.  All four of these actions directly caused "disharmony and ill feelings among club members"

This is merely a summary statement, and it's far from complete.  There is a litany of fully documented incidents and the failures caused by incapable leadership that surround ALL of these events...  Actions speak louder than words.

If somebody has a sharp pencil, an accounting background, and would care to contribute to this cause, have at it.  I have five year's worth of financial summaries for starters...

[Bob280]

Hey Leo,

After retiring from the military, I worked for several years in the defense industry as an auditor of sub-contracts for a major corporation and was also the Sub-contracts Administration manager. Think I might know something about evaluating financial numbers. Don't guarantee anything but willing to take a look. Still have my book on generaly accepted accounting procedures - makes a great door stop (har! har!)

Bob T

[Mud Dog]

Still have my book on generally accepted accounting procedures - makes a great door stop.

I thought it was interesting that Motion #6 at this years Mid-Winter IBT proposed to specify for the first time (Article XVI, Financial Management Policy, paragraph 6) that WBCCI books be prepared in accordance with Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP).

Presumably this means that up to this time they have not been.

Now, GAAP is a can of worms--similar in principle to Roberts Rules of Order--and I don't view it as a big deal that WBCCI may not have been following it.  Big publicly held corporations have to because they have to have a certified audit every year, but that requirement doesn't apply to WBCCI.

Interesting, nevertheless.  Why now?

[Simon]

I smell an IRS audit.

[WKerfoot]

Still have my book on generally accepted accounting procedures - makes a great door stop.

I thought it was interesting that Motion #6 at this years Mid-Winter IBT proposed to specify for the first time (Article XVI, Financial Management Policy, paragraph 6) that WBCCI books be prepared in accordance with Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP).

Presumably this means that up to this time they have not been.

Now, GAAP is a can of worms--similar in principle to Roberts Rules of Order--and I don't view it as a big deal that WBCCI may not have been following it.  Big publicly held corporations have to because they have to have a certified audit every year, but that requirement doesn't apply to WBCCI.

Interesting, nevertheless.  Why now?

Mud Dog,

Are you familiar with GAAP?

Bill

[Mud Dog]

Mud Dog,

Are you familiar with GAAP?

Bill

No.  All the corporations I have been involved with have hired a CPA to set up our accounting procedures and a bookkeeper to run them.  Any questions, call The Man.