[Simon]

I think it is about as official as it can get...
Well - the truth finally comes out and all should be aware of the facts. The new WBCCI forums - purported by Charlie Burke to be a donation to the club is really not much more than a compensated service provided by none-other than Mr. Gregory Gibson. The forums do not belong to WBCCI. Now we have IBT confirmation of the facts.

BTW - a grievance was filed against my wife and I by Mr. Gibson for presenting facts just like these...

The story is that a past member of WBCCI complained about the treatment he received at the hands of Mr. Gibson over the forums. This past member contacted WBCCI HQ over the issue and left a message for the IP, Tom Collier. While leaving that message, this past member also discovered that Mr. Gibson contacted WBCCI HQ to inquire if this individual was a member in good standing. His reason? - he was going to file a grievance against this individual for his outspoken opinion against the "new forums". Where have we seen that before???

Here is the reply directly from the International President:

I received your email regarding your conversation with Mr. Gibson. I regret that the exchange was not polite.

One of the items you mentioned was WBCCI's association with the forum. We are linked to the forum only as a customer and have control only for the rules of our site. WBCCI receives the service, at no cost, as a benefit for our membership. Proceeds from the classified advertisements go to the owner of the forum and not to WBCCI.

Our grievance policy states that a grievance is filed between WBCCI members. Again, I deeply regret that Greg Gibson was rude to you. We would prefer that all our members have good manners and public relations skills. I ask that you please not judge our organization based on the actions of one member.

Sincerely,

Tom Collier

Ah - but the potential members DO judge the club based on experiences with individuals like Mr. Gibson.

So now - having non-WBCCI moderators edit posts or having members pay for ads all makes sense - it is a commercial venture that Mr. Gibson has sold to the the club. It is not truly the WBCCI's forums, it is not a gift from Mr. Gibson to the WBCCI as Charlie Burke told us - but rather just an individual who is providing a service for a de facto compensation (in the form of paid banner ads and a high priced ad system). Hey - remember when we were told that Mr. Gibson donated a web site to Region 3 only to find out that they were actually paying for that site? How history repeats itself..

Now, the members must stomach these fees, ads and over-moderation because it is NOT their forums....It is Gregory Gibson's. In the end, WBCCI is just a customer and the only say they have is in the nearly 3000 word terms of service - nothing else.

Imagine if the club had elected instead to own all of those assets, software, server space and domain name. We would have no banner ads, we would have had a member moderated classified ad system that doesn't cost the members a dime and we would have pride of ownership in a forums that is not just a commercial venture designed to benefit just one member.

I remember back in the day when this was all coming together that there would be just a cooperative link to Mr. Gibson's business. Boom - that exploded to banner ads and a classified ads system that members have to pay for. I remember hearing that this was a donation to the club. But then Charlie Burke posts that Mr. Gibson incurred considerable expense to develop the forums and is entitled to recoup some of that expense in the form of those banner ads and his paid for ad system. But a donation is supposed to be a one way street, isn't it? Donations are gifts given without return consideration. This lack of return consideration means that nothing is supposed to be received in return for the contribution. I have donated several web sites to non-profit entities over the bast years and I never put banner ads or charged for the services in a back door way like that. I don't expect to recoup my considerable expense.... What am I missing?

[Airedale]

This is so sad! I hope its only a matter of time before Greg gets the boot!

[Simon]

Carefull there! You are just asking to get a grievance filed on you. He is doing it!!!!

[ByamCaravanner]

I wonder what the club officials think of Charlie and Greg, acting as club officials (running it's official forum) lying to other members about their activities?

[Wheel Interested]

But a donation is supposed to be a one way street, isn't it? Donations are gifts given without return consideration. This lack of return consideration means that nothing is supposed to be received in return for the contribution. I have donated several web sites to non-profit entities over the bast years and I never put banner ads or charged for the services in a back door way like that. I don't expect to recoup my considerable expense.... What am I missing?

Isn't that much like a volunteer is to give their time and efforts freely and not be compensated for their work???

Perhaps you and I have had a different exposure to learning.  I feel woefully equipped to understand the liberties of WBCCI that are taken...

And I know for a fact that after the International President advised Charlie and Greg to restore my forum access i had to go back again and ask the IP how long that access might take.  Even now I am the only member I know of that receives the server busy message everytime I try to get to the forums.  The only difference is the banned IP message was replaced with server busy message.  Honesty and clarity is of no priority at this time with this extension of WBCCI. 

A black list ensues, I remain upon it.  My opinions are considered dangerous, as transparent and as earnest as they are presented, but the falsifying of messages falls well within the code of ethics...go figure.

Grievance?  I have a problem with you people...some one bring the festivus pole, quickly!

[Simon]

Ah - truth be told Carol, I also seem to have the server busy message UNLESS I proxy into the site. With the proxy, I can immediately see the site without difficulty. But trying to go directly to the site using ANY browser, I get the big old server busy message.
I suspect that Mr. Gibson has inserted a nice little Rewrite rule in his ".htaccess" file on the server. This is some deeper webmaster stuff and you must have server access to do it. This little file does all sorts of things for a webmaster including taking all traffic from a specific IP address and forcing it to go in another direction.
The code looks like this:

Code: [Select]

RewriteCond %{REMOTE_ADDR} ^64\.126\.81\.30$ [OR]
RewriteCond %{REMOTE_ADDR} ^75\.117\.244\.27$
RewriteRule .* http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/cyberstalking.htm [R,L]With that - I could send Leo to some porn site every time he tries to visit SaveWally forums but make it look like he is still on SaveWally.
Anyway, I sent a message to Cindy Reed to discuss the matter and to tell her that I have verified the problem.
The bad part is that these AREN'T WBCCI's Forums - They are Gibson's forums and he can block anybody he pleases on the planet. WBCCI can do nothing about it at all - Tom Collier already verified that. And even if they WERE WBCCI's forums, they would have no idea how to pull that .htaccess file and look at it and see what is written there and determine what Rewrite statements are there.

So - the bottom line is this - Carol, unless you proxy in like I am doing, you are stuck once again not being able to see the forums.

What a great benefit for the club....

[65GT]

"I received your email regarding your conversation with Mr. Gibson. I regret that the exchange was not polite.

One of the items you mentioned was WBCCI's association with the forum. We are linked to the forum only as a customer and have control only for the rules of our site. WBCCI receives the service, at no cost, as a benefit for our membership. Proceeds from the classified advertisements go to the owner of the forum and not to WBCCI.

Our grievance policy states that a grievance is filed between WBCCI members. Again, I deeply regret that Greg Gibson was rude to you. We would prefer that all our members have good manners and public relations skills. I ask that you please not judge our organization based on the actions of one member."

What?  What kind of BULL**** is this?  What member of the IBT voted for OUR WBCCI to be subserviant to Vintage-Airstream.com as nothing more than a mere CUSTOMER of THEIR forums?

I was in that IBT Seminar pushing for the best interests of our CLUB, and look what we got instead.  Even after IBT members throughout stated the importance of us owning our own forums, look what happens when you have leadership that is incapable of dealing with, or understanding the details.

Even after more than one suggested that the matter be tabled until ALL could have a better understanding of what exactly was being proposed, the end result now verifies that we got sold a bill of goods, again!

Congratulations one and all for bringing forward another raw deal for the membership to swallow.  How unfortunate for US, that we have YOU to lead us -- on the fastest track to dissolution I've ever seen...

There's about six years left folks, and then we'll be calling this one a day.  This is what YOU get for as long as you're willing to put up with their self-selected leadership process.  Pin the tail on the donkey...

Just so we all understand what we're dealing with here, here's a typical time-line for ALL EC7 members:

1st Past IP = FIVE years as one of seven Executive Committee members (EC7), 2 years as a Region President (IBT) (SEVEN YEARS TOTAL).

IP = FOUR years as an EC7 member, 2 years as RP (IBT) (SIX YEARS TOTAL).

I1VP = THREE years as an EC7 member, 2 years as RP (IBT) (FIVE YEARS TOTAL).

I2VP = TWO years as an EC7 member, 2 years as RP (IBT) (FOUR YEARS TOTAL).

I1VP = One year as an EC7 member, 2 years as RP (IBT) (THREE  YEARS TOTAL).

The Recording Secretary and International Treasurer actually have zero pre-requisites and their backgrounds could be anything from no prior Int. experience, to past IBT member, or other Region Officer.

The point here is that ALL of these folks should be SEASONED, not CLUELESS.  The wool has been pulled over the eyes of the IBT in these matters, and the rug pulled out from under the membership -- all due to a FAILURE TO LEAD.  No excuses -- those involved were simply not capable of dealing with the situation to produce the results that both the membership, and our leadership wanted.  SHAME ON THEM ALL...

Poor taste from start to finish... 

[KerrBett]

It is so sad that this is emerging as another fiasco.  But what is the cause - people who don't understand the technology/issue or something larger?  Our bigger problem is that our obsolete system of governance at the top of the WBCCI org chart doesn't seem to be capable of moving us into the current century.  We have a governance system designed for the 1960's, when the Club was growing well past 25,000 members, when social customs and formalities were viewed very differently, when the International Rally was a very big deal, when there were few alternatives for Airstream owners.  For our Club, today, it just doesn't work.  Our leaders are focused on running a rally (now a convention) which is also struggling to retain its validity for the majority of members.  Who's real role in WBCCI is it to run the Club, to ensure it remains  strong and vital?  The answer isn't obvious at the moment.

I applaud the Unit that is trying to propose a new governance model.  We need a serious and constructive discussion within WBCCI as a whole on how this Club should be structured to be sustainable.  If the discussion isn't initiated by our current leadership, then it needs to be done elsewhere within the membership and brought forward for decisions.  So lets have the debates.

Cheers,
Kerry

[65GT]

It is so sad that this is emerging as another fiasco.  But what is the cause - people who don't understand the technology/issue or something larger?...

The answers simply don't change.  We have leadership that works in a vacuum.  We have leadership that gets blinded by their own personal needs, their own personal vision, their own personal campaigns, and they take their eyes off of what is most important.

Our leadership continues to fail at vetting out common sense issues.

Should I allow an external 'company' to OWN our forums?  It's a black and white question and for all the variables that could point no, the answer is NO.

Our leadership failed to understand the importance of owning our own forum.  Our leadership, when questioned, thought that forum ownership was not a straight forward answer.

Let me answer that for you...

When YOU buy your domain name, YOU OWN IT! $10/yr.

When YOU contract for server space, and you have clear access to back-up, and modify your own database, YOU OWN IT! $4/mth and up

When YOU buy, install, and customize your own forum software, YOU OWN IT!  $FREE - $500 - you buy what you can afford!

When YOU or your organization can make routine backups, daily back-ups, of all of the data at your domain, of your database, YOU OWN IT!  $FREE

For every piece you farm out, you LOSE OWNERSHIP and EVERYTHING that goes along with ownership, like CONTROL.

This could have been done at minimal cost -- the big item - the software, was not a NECESSITY -- it was BLING.  Was there FREE software available that is more than capable?  You're looking it at -- it's right here.  Need a website -- look here:  http://SaveWally.org

...and worst of all, when an entire REGION has long standing issues with the company you're now entertaining using, WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!  You've got the best reference you're ever going to get, and you ignore it and plod ahead anyway?

It's now a FACT that the miserable user hack was installed at the WBCCI forums, and we have CLUB members that have been suffering as a result.  This is an intentionally installed hack, and that's all you need for proof.

Our leadership continues to fail us because they are simply not capable.  Our IP has been aware of a member being blocked from our forums for months and had assurances that this was resolved, even after that member continued to report problems.  The WBCCI member was IGNORED by those in charge of WBCCI forums.

Sure it got resolved, eventually, months later.  But then, somebody in control, somebody in charge, deliberately and intentionally installed this 'miserable user' hack and applied it to the very same member.
The HACK installed that is deliberately designed to aggravate and frustrate any club member deemed to be a nuisance, all under the WBCCI banner.  This hack isn't software standard - it needs to be INSTALLED by the end user.  Guess who the end user is?  Hint - it's not a club owned forum!

We need better leadership -- we need people that not only care, but are CAPABLE of doing what is right, and when PROVEN that the wrong path was taken, have the character to change course and FIX the very problem that they created...

...the very problem that they created!

[Mud Dog]

It's now a FACT that the miserable user hack was installed at the WBCCI forums, and we have CLUB members that have been suffering as a result.  This is an intentionally installed hack, and that's all you need for proof.

<snip>

The HACK installed that is deliberately designed to aggravate and frustrate any club member deemed to be a nuisance, all under the WBCCI banner.  This hack isn't software standard - it needs to be INSTALLED by the end user.  Guess who the end user is?  Hint - it's not a club owned forum!

However, the owner is a WBCCI member, so this sounds like pretty good grounds for a grievance.  (Assuming you have credible evidence.)

You know, "sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander" and all that. . . 

[Simon]

Oh - it gets better and better... How about this?

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1886423&postcount=1
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1886979&postcount=136
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1887465&postcount=102

This really looks to me like SOMEONE was looking for instructions on how to set up the Miserable Users hack in THEIR forums to frustrate just one individual? If you search just a little bit, you will learn the true identity of the poster of these questions....

[Wheel Interested]

Being able to place the IP in MUG would be a wonderful alternative that
allows "plausible deniability."

Anyone have the definition of plausible deniability?  Someone joyously contemplated staging an intentional and convincing lie by their own admission???  Lost moral high ground and the code of ethics?

[Simon]

oh - read through those forums... You will see all sorts of interesting and fun stuff.

[Simon]

Looks like Greg Gibson is going to take me to court! If what he says is true (and why wouldn't I believe him) he has already notified the police of my illegal behavior, gonna get the FBI cybercrimes unit on my tail and even have his lawyer contact me for stalking him on the internet.

Timmy Butterball
You've been a very busy boy.
I guess I should thank you since the emails below are all legally loaded and
will be a handsome addition to everything else I've got in your file.
The real clincher is the latest one in which you've now not only hung yourself
but you've implicated, in your own writing, your AirForum staff buddy Richard
and therefore Andy by default and put a nice big ribbon on the whole package
at AirForums. Talk to Andy about that. He's going to love you now.
The hilarious part is that you're double-dipped on both boards.
They'll all have you to thank for what happens next.

Consider yourself as being put on official notice.
Im telling you up front what is going to happen to you now so that
while it is happening you are fully aware who is doing it.
No surprises.

Last evening I filed police reports with the local authorities for cyberstalking
so that there are official records in place.
Im expecting a call back today from the local Federal Cybercrimes Unit of the FBI
with whom I'll also be filing reports and complaints concerning your lengthy cyberstalking campaigns.

Shortly, I'll be filing suit against you in a court of law. You'll get an email notice
from my attorney and then official copies at your residence. We've printed out all the threads and posts you're responsible for as well as copies of all the emails you've sent to various individuals and entities.There are a number of people from your previous units who are eager to have the chance to provide depositions and act as character witnesses as well as a few
individuals who've witnessed your antics over the course of the last several months.

So far, here's how things are shaping up:

[1] Federal & State Cyberstalking crimes
[2] Tortious Business Interference with existing & prospective business relationships
[3] Libel & Slander
[4] Defamation of Character
[5] Unfair Business Practices under NC Law
[6] False Light Invasion of Privacy
[7] Copyright Infringements

Matthew Arnold is my attorney. If you have any questions whatsoever
prior to receiving his paperwork, you can reach him here:
http://www.arnoldsmithlaw.com/Home/

Here are a few things for you to read up on over the weekend:

http://www.multistalkervictims.org/laws/northcarolina.htm#cyberstalking

http://www.dba-oracle.com/internet_defamation_privacy_libel_laws.htm

http://www.dba-oracle.com/internet_laws_false_light_privacy_defamation.htm

http://www.enotes.com/everyday-law-encyclopedia/deceptive-trade-practices

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/875.html

There's an old saying "give a person enough rope and he'll hang himself".
Boy, you sure didnt disappoint.

Ive also got a family member who is a Senior Official in the Attorney General's
Office in Carson City, NV. That will be an interesting conversation for Monday.

Best of luck to you Timmy. Id say you're going to need it.


Once and only once, contact your harasser directly and state in simple, strong, and formal terms to stop contacting you and/or posting anything about you. State that the communications are unwanted and inappropriate, and that you will take further action if it does not stop. E-mail a copy to the system administrator of your Internet service provider. Save copies of these communications, and note that you sent them in your log.

Contact your local police. Report every incident of on-line abuse and provide the police with copies of evidence you have collected. Save copies of any police incident reports, and note each contact to law enforcement in your log. If the stalker is out of state, you should also contact your local office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Call the FBI Computer Crimes Unit in your local area. [The Federal Interstate Stalking and Prevention Act, 18 U.S.C. Section 2261A, was amended in 2000 to cover on-line stalking as well as stalking by phone and mail. Also, some on-line stalking cases may fall under 18 U.S.C. Section 875, Interstate Communications (to make threats to physically harm or kidnap another person in interstate communications is a felony) or 47 U.S.C. Section 223, Obscene or Harassing Telephone Calls in Interstate Communications.]

[LI Pets]

Tim not to worry Gibson is is glueless about the law, if his laywer is telling him what he can do to you he doesn't know Federal law very well.

How many lawyers in NC are going to know FRCP this one answers traffic tickets, Federal lawyers don't do traffic tikets 

You can call the Court system and ask the clerk if he's even admitted to practice in the Federal Courts (not all lawyers are permitted)

THe FBI must be on the edge of their seats with your crimes, they at most took a report and filed it just to get him off the phone.

Tim you need to file a grievience against Gibson.

If fact Tom Collier should file one against Gibson also he's promoting disharmony.

There is no such thing as an official notice, this guy can't even afford to pay a lawyer to write you a letter.

Based on this poorly written threat it appears there is a lack of education of the writter and I don't think he has a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out.

A Federal lawsuit such as he describes is about 10,000 to start and upwards of 150,000 over the 3 years it would take.  Got that much money Gibson? I do!

Hey Gibson want to screw with me I know the Federal laws very well!

We're all tired of your crap go away turn over everything to the club,
buy an SOB
stop selling Airstreams.

I call for Gibson's resignation

John Carrington III

1820 Madison Ave
New York NY

Sue me baby, I dare 'ya