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[66Overlander]

Change the Nominating Process then, but DON'T take away my vote.

Off the cuff and without much thought, how about just eliminating the International Nominating Committee and having the Region Presidents perform that function.  Hopefully they would be able to find 2 or more people to run for each office (maybe only 1 might be endorsed depending upon their "qualifications"), and then the full membership would get the final vote?

[wheel interested]

I like the members voting too, Joe.

As to the Michigan unit talking about 1800 members and that just one of Michigan's units?  I wonder how many members were in each of the other units at that time.  Do your collected archival year books go back that far and list each units' membership totals?

[Pahaska]

I would also like to see the nominating committee formed from the Region Presidents.  Three, or whatever number is deemed appropriate, could be chosen by lot after the new Presidents are installed at the International.  No bloc could continuously appropriate the nominating process as happens now.

[Bob280]

Hello Joe,

Please consider the following:

Under the present system, a International Nominating Committee (INC) selects who the nominees are. Now that committee cdan reject an individual because they have "differing opinions" or don't meet the INC's "concept" of who they want (bear in mind that there are NO written qualifications so the INC can make up their own). At the Mid-Winter meeting, an individual was denied consideration because he did not show up for an interview. But that individual was working for FEMA getting emergency services to US Citizens at the time and, although he contacted the INC Chairman, he was even refused a teleconferance type interview. So much for ethics and fairness.

Now continuing under the current system, it appears that actions are taken against "from the floor Candidates" - last years lettr of instructions from the IP that was highly biased against floor candidates and should not have been sent to the unit presidents and this years IP establishing outrageous fees for floor candidates to have their resumes and position statements put into the BB. And after they paid the fees, the IP refused to allow their resumes and position statements to be published. So much for ethics and fairness.

Now comes your vote which may be based on lack of information (it is my understanding that one region refused to publish the resume or information on the floor candidates - Question, It that ethical or fair? I think not) Ok, so you vote and your vote may NOT be counted if the unit "Block votes" for someone else. (yes that happens)

If your vote survived all of the above, it still may NOT be counted because your unit could not or did not send a delegate to International or your delegate was NOT accepted by the credentials committee (yes the committee has, at the last minute, rejected delegates and thus the vote is lost)

And IF your vote survived all of the above, it still may not be counted because your delegate did not have a written statement that your floor candidate would serve if elected or not counted if your unit delegate decides to vote for someone else (Yes that can happen and appears to be legal).

NOW on the other hand, if you vote directly for a region president or director and they in turn vote for the International President from among themselves, you hav a more direct say in who your International officers are.

So yu then have a Board of Directors (consisting of 6-12 region presidents or dirctors) who select one of them to be the International President and IF that Presidet fails, they can put someone else in. Simple and to the point with mak control and yas by the membership because the region presidents / directors answer directly to the membership.

Billions of people connected with millions of corporations use the above system with great success.

Any way Joe, come on out from under the rock and lets go camping. It is time for fun and fellowship. Joe, send me your e-mail address and I'll send you a great handbook on RV Comminications.

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox.

Bob T

[66Overlander]

I like the members voting too, Joe.

As to the Michigan unit talking about 1800 members and that just one of Michigan's units?  I wonder how many members were in each of the other units at that time.  Do your collected archival year books go back that far and list each units' membership totals?

Actually, I don't have any archival books from that period, just "facts" from a recent Michigan Unit Newsletter.  The 1800 number was before the Metro-Detroit, Mid-East Michigan, and probably Northern Michigan Units broke off from the Michigan Unit.  This would be late '60s or very early '70s (pre-1973 or so) when the Michigan Unit was the only one in the state.  It was stated that at that time the Michigan Unit was the largest in WBCCI.

[wheel interested]

That's a huge amount of members by today's standards!  I thought you might have the past indexes.  Are you collecting them to identify vintage units to previous owners? Imagine more than twice an International's total attendance all in one unit...just mind boggling.  Thanks for the information.  It's no wonder the leadership was large with those kind of numbers in the way back.  Between those glory years and todays scenereo  the Airstreams survived but the membership never saw a turn over, or a modification in scaling back.  I think some of WBCCI doesn't realize how region 4 aged and dropped off as it has,  hopefully to be remedied with active members as they try to inject activity into the club, such as your whitewater rafting trip, which we would love to do if we were able to attend, btw!  Perhaps the shorter numbered caravan will find you and Lorrie leading if it becomes approved.

[65GT]

I think the main thrust of the idea is that the EC7 has outlived its purpose.  By what method the top tier of unanimous head nod elected leadership is eliminated isn't as important as getting rid of that separate tier of leadership...

~$43,000.00 a year in EC7 travel and attendance fees = what benefit to the club and its members?  Perceived or real?  Is there any substantial payoff by the membership investing ~$43K in a mere 7 leaders annually?

Try and answer that one.  If the best you can come up with is that the primary reason for the mere existence of 5 of those members (sans Treasurer and Recording Secretary) is to plan, organize, and then travel to sell the International to the membership, well, that's failure in itself, isn't it?

Our leadership should be working initiatives that will grow the membership, and they should be conservative hawks when it comes to annual operating costs (losses in our case).  The 2020 Committee -- had our leaders been doing the job -- never would have even been the twinkle in anyone's eye.  Stand and deliver...

So, 8 Region President's electing the hierarchy amongst themselves might not yield the same results as the membership voting from within that group, but without competitive elections, those 8 that have been working with each other for ~4 years prior, should have a pretty good handle on who is making a difference, and who isn't.

You can still get differing opinions on current region leadership, just by asking different region officers where they think any specific region officers lie (conservative, liberal, progressive, regressive).  If they don't know each other well, then how is a mere member supposed to have any better idea?

Then, unless regions are near equal in membership numbers (and they're miles apart) smaller region presidents would never have a chance under a pure membership vote.  So, drop R3 to something less than the 1K+ members it has, and combine regions to turn R7 (with less than 200 members) to a near equal strength, and under those circumstances, in a membership vote, popularity, if nothing else, would dictate that election...

[Bob280]

The International 1st VP responded to questions as follows:

3. Eliminate International 3rd Vice President
4. Eliminate Region 2nd Vice Presidents
5. Change Regions from 12 to 6.

I am grouping these three together and
answering them together. The Int. 3rd VP is a very important VP at the
International Rally. He is in charge of everything that happens outside and
some committees inside. He is responsible for the setup of the parking,
electric, water, trams, trash collecting, engineering, and many other
necessary behind the scenes jobs. Locating and negotiating International
sites also can take a lot of the VP's time which sometimes takes the
entire three years. I am not in favor of eliminating this VP.

Although the above sounds like the I3VP does a lot, it is simply a lot of words. Lets look at what really happens. The Region Presidents receive a list of committees to coordinate with and to address any problems which those committees might have. So ALL of the jobs listed above have up to three Region Officers overseeing their work. It is those Region Officers who really do the work and coordination. If there is a problem those committee chairs contact the region president who then takes care of it. Now, since the 150 or more committees are all working with and coordinating with the 12 region presidents (and their VP),, one would think that the International President could talk to 12 presidents and be able to resolve all issues. Now it is even more simple then that since the I1VP could take half of the load and that wuld reduce it to six apiece. ONE DOES NOT NEED LAYER UPON LAYER OF OVERSIGHT!

Now, considering that there is an International Rally Committee and it has a chair; and since the Club attorney is involved in all contracts; and since the excutive Committee is involved, and since the PIP Council is involved, it is clear that the International rally planing, location and selection is in good hands even if there were no I3VP.

bottom line, let the rally committee, attorney and others do their job. The I3VP is NOT needed and is a waste of Club money. Time to get rid of the PORK.

The same goes for the I2VP. If we had over 10,000 members, maybe we might need them but even then there is a question.

Now is the time to get the Club budget balanced and reduce top leadership spending. example, why is it necessary for the international officers to visit the national and special events rallies year after year at club expense? why is it necessary to have an expensive Mid-Winter meeting that costs thouslands when an electronic conference could achieve the same results at little or no cost to the Club?

We now know that the upcoming Club President is not going to change anything so the individual units need to act on this. Submit asection 1 under the amendments article to delete these two positions - they are NOT needed and provide little value to the Club and are NOT cost effective.

BTW vote for Don Clark (in case the above motion is not ratified) and Roy, Don and Leo for nominating committee (Note for the IBT: which ever one of the the three does not win, vote them in as the Chair of the nominating committee)

[65GT]

Hey look -- we've got all kinds of upper echelon leaders thinking that nothing needs to be changed.  They prove that year in and year out when the only major improvements they're willing to make are their mileage reimbursements!

We've had, and have, all kinds of upper echelon leaders thinking members don't need to be concerned with facts and choices -- that this club already has a top notch management team doing a fantastic job of bringing this club to its knees.  Why would anyone want an alternative view or opinion?   

We've got an IP that has deliberately blocked the membership from direct knowledge that they had a valid choice this year, that would at least try to move to end this madness.  Yet that IP took it upon himself to restrict the membership's right to know that they had a choice.  This from an IP that will turn in yet another precipitous drop in membership, a bigger annual financial loss, and an International Convention (gasp), with yet another decline in attendance (note to all -- it's supposed to be a RALLY -- NOT a convention)...

In the world of baseball, we're well beyond three strikes -- this triple play would amount to finishing dead last in the series, yet again.

When is the last time that our International Nominating Committee picked a set of leaders that could actually grow or improve anything?  Qualified for what?  FAILURE?

What this club needs are leaders that will recognize that the number of chiefs that were needed to run a club of 28,000 members are not needed in a club of a mere 6,000 (and falling) membership.  That with the speed and ease of today's communications methods, that this club doesn't need to THROW AWAY $17K a year on a Mid-Winter Gala when we're running 5 digits in the RED each and every year.  We've got $125K worth of officer's reimbursements that have failed to buy this club anything!

If I'm spending $125K on volunteer management -- it had better produce something positive -- some sign of growth, or at a minimum fiscal responsibility, because if it doesn't -- I'm better off with non-reimbursed volunteers no matter what that leadership does or doesn't produce!

True leaders are the ones that will encourage an informed membership, encourage those that believe they can make a difference to go forward, and will let our membership drive what this club is and should be.  Self-important leaders, serving merely to be able to live out their self-fulfilling dreams of subsidized travel with a title on their forehead, and failing in their duties, are about as useful as a high torque diesel engine on a scooter.

Enough already!  Our 3rd tier of leadership in this club simply needs to go -- the entire EC7.  Let those job responsibilities be absorbed by the ranks of Region Presidents for starters, and just as soon as we make that adjustment, let's reduce the number of regions down to 6 or 8, with near equal membership numbers in each.

How many years of failed leadership does this club have to endure before we at least attempt to fix what is so obviously broken?

Anyone can find a reason to not change something, but I see a 22,000 member deficit, on top of a 2nd year forecasted financial loss on the order of $50K for '09, that is more than enough reason to change EVERYTHING about how this club fails annually.

This club doesn't need a convention -- it needs a rally that beats the heck out of your average unit rally, one that pales every region rally by comparison, and one that looks like, and promotes exactly what this club does -- promoting the extended use of Airstreams in every imaginable way that we use them for.  Produce an annual rally that accomplishes those goals, and I'm sure you can sneak a few business meetings in here and there without causing too much of a ruckus...

Suits, ties, dress pants, polished shoes, paramilitary parades, reviewing the units -- wake up people -- THIS is a camping club and that is what Wally instilled in his caravans -- camping, travel, comraderie.  Take all of that other stuff -- and toss it to the curb.